Thursday, November 13, 2008

Sharing Someone's Elses Words

The following two quotes are taken from a piece entitled "When Kingdoms Collide" by blogger David D. Flowers. His blog, The Supremacy and Centrality of Christ can be found here.

"...The answer to our present dilemma is not to continue down the path of castrating the Gospel of Jesus with insistency upon getting our hands on the mantle of political power. It is to return to the way of the Master. It is by renewing our Christology in a zealous pursuit of his heart. It can only come by taking another look at Jesus and rethinking the doctrine of the two kingdoms. It will call for a fresh interpretation of Scripture within its historical-grammatical context and a discovery of the indwelling Christ. And it will come with great sacrifice."


"It is only the Person and the work of Christ that our entire faith is built upon. No level of human wisdom and ingenuity is relevant to issues that faced us yesterday, face us today, and will be facing us tomorrow. If we want to understand the heart of Christ who is God, we must be willing to abandon human reasoning that is not first captivated by the words of Jesus. Are we willing to lay aside our preconceived notions and our cultural conditioning in order that we might receive the word of Christ? Would we be so bold as to allow the Holy Spirit of Christ to invade our space and reveal to us the “foolishness” of the Gospel that Paul wrote about (1 Cor. 1:18-20)?

May the Spirit give us the ability to say, 'Yes!' to Christ."

These words ring true to me. What do you think?


Carey said...

. .. don't know what Flowers means by the "doctrine of the two kingdoms."
If there are two, I think I'm in and out of both several times a week, maybe several times a day. Furthermore, what we call the body of Christ, or the church, seems to be a merging of the two kingdoms.
Rather than two kingdoms, maybe it's more like bread dough that is being prepared, in which the yeast rises to perform its uplifting work, so that the whole loaf is lightened when the heat is applied. (Mt. 13:33)

ded said...

When you read his series of three posts, it is clear. There is the kingdom of man and the Kingdom of God.

However these two paragraphs spoke eloquently to me of ideas we have been bouncing round here in the wild wood.

ddflowers said...


I want to challenge you to read my blog posts on the two kingdoms and the Christian's relationship to worldly politics. I respectfully disagree with your perspective.

I know that most believers are unfamiliar with the biblical teaching of the two kingdoms (i.e. kingdoms of the world vs. the Kingdom of God). This just goes to show how American Christianity has ignored aspects of the Gospel message that threatens its ability to join arms with ungodly pursuits of the world and the pride of their nations.

I do believe Christians have not given any significant amount of time looking at the true nature of the Kingdom of God. They resort to cliches and thoughtless comments that puts discipleship in the back seat of Christian living. We must refuse to live out our faith this way.

"The Gospel of the Kingdom" by renown N.T. scholar George Eldon Ladd is a great book on the Scripture's presentation of the two kingdoms. It's a short but insightful read. I would also recommend the most recent "Myth of a Christian Nation" by Gregory Boyd.

David D. Flowers

craig v. said...


Sorry to be a bit dense, but would you clarify what point (or points) of Carey's you don't agree with? Thanks.

ddflowers said...

Specifically... that there is a "merging" of the two kingdoms. I disagree with this and everything stated after it. She had already indicated she was unclear about the two kingdoms and then proceeded to express an opinion about it. This was the reason for the things I stated in my first comment.

Reading my blog posts would help to clarify any other questions you might have. Thanks.

Carey said...

"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;
"and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.
"So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
"and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
" 'Have you understood all these things?'(Jesus asked.) They said to Him, 'Yes.'
"And Jesus said to them, 'Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure things new and old.'"

ded said...


Thanks for visiting over here and commenting. I appreciate your involvement. I took you up on your posted invitation to post about your posts, as you can see. Thanks again for what you wrote over on your blog.

First, Carey is not a she but a he. He and I have been friends for 25+ years.

Second, I am not surprised at all that he had a response that neither applauded nor denied your words. He made a connection, which he saw, and built his comment from there. He is a creative thinker and I have always admired that about him.

As I have found so often on blogs, this written communication in short bursts is rife with not understanding what the other person is actually saying; while we each work to get our own message across, it becomes a bit of challenge to really hear what someone else is saying.

Bottom line, linear thinking between two minds is difficult to sustain in this format. I am confident you are both of the same spirit of Christ!

Chip said...

This post and the comments following were just what I needed today. Thanks.

Carey said...

Good to see ya here. I'm glad our banter could uplift someone. Speaking of babies, don't you and Melody have a new one?
I appreciate your skillful online diplomacy. I'm definitely on a steep learning curve in this blog/comment venue.
ddflowers and ded,
My insensitive responses are probably rooted in a weariness at seeing Christians always emphasize their separation from others who are seeking truth, instead of making efforts to reach them and teach them. This is especially true now that so many of our kingdom are disillusioned with the election results.
Furthermore, the Lord required me to immediately re-evaluate the "kingdom" perspective when my daughter posted, the next day on her blog some very potent material about the Kingdom as it is presently functioning in the Lord's power in Myanmar.
So may the Kingdom be with you, and in you, and in us all.

Carey said...

Please excuse the double entry. I should have accurately posted my daughter's blog as:
her blog

ddflowers said...

I am glad we all can see the limits of communicating through a blog. I know we all can benefit... we simply need to be slow to jump to conclusions. I am learning this lesson.

I appreciate your portion of Christ!